what’s in a major? liberal arts vs. engineering
Happy Monday!
The start of another work-week has me thinking about what gets us employed in jobs we actually like (and maybe even love): our education. Our course of study, and the degrees we earn, determine our future, but to what extent?
Which is the right path—for our children, or, if we’re returning to school as adults, for ourselves? Are liberal arts degrees practical for today’s hyper-competitive job market?
I just read a fascinating post on Tech Crunch by the engineer-entrepreneur-turned-academic Vivek Wadhwa, “Engineering vs. Liberal Arts: Who’s Right—Bill or Steve?”
Interesting that both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are college dropouts, but let’s leave that aside for now—the vast majority of us won’t make it out there without a college degree.
You can see from the title of my post what side of the debate I’m on. Get me one of those sleek Team Steve black turtlenecks!
In a nutshell, Wadhawa states: “Our society needs liberal-arts majors as much as it does engineers and scientists.” But, he also acknowledges that:
“…employment prospects are dim for liberal-arts majors. Graduates from top engineering schools such as Duke are always in high demand. But PhDs in English from even the most prestigious universities, such as UC-Berkeley, can’t get jobs. The data I presented [in his NYT piece] were on the background of tech-company founders—those who made the transition into entrepreneurship. Most don’t. And, as you can note from Bill Gates’ speech, there is a bias against liberal arts and humanities.
Angelika Blendstrup is an author and a lecturer who holds a PhD in Bilingual Bicultural Education from Stanford. She says that her liberal-arts background is “great for writing papers or PhDs, but it would be better to have studied engineering and have a choice of jobs”.
Charles River Venture Partner emeritus, Ted Dintersmith, on the other hand, received a PhD in Engineering from Stanford. But he also studied liberal arts. Ted says “It doesn’t have to be either/or—I double-majored in Physics and English, and never regretted combining two such different disciplines”.
So there is no black and white here. We need musicians, artists, and psychologists, as much as we need bio-medical engineers, computer programmers, and scientists.
My advice to my students—and to my own children—is to study what interests them the most; to excel in fields in which they have the most passion and ability; to change the world in their own way and on their own terms. Once they master their domain, they can find the path to entrepreneurship. They can then come up with creative ways of solving the problems that they have encountered, and apply their ideas to other fields where their knowledge adds value. Maybe they can team up with the hard-core engineers who develop the clunky, inelegant, over-engineered products that Bill is famous for; maybe work with Steve to create the next iPhone or iPad.
You can read more views and witness the lively debate on the New York Times web site.
I graduated during the height of the nasty 1990 recession with a History degree from Barnard, a stellar liberal arts college. My friend Regina and I woke up one morning in March of our senior year, looked at each other, and said: “Holy crap: we’re graduating in seven weeks. We need to find jobs.” We bought suits from Lord & Taylor’s sale rack and the Sunday New York Times (these were the pre-Internet job search days), where we circled possible jobs in red ink.
Armed with my determination (and that L&T suit), a history degree and fluent Italian (thanks to that history degree), less than three weeks after graduating I started a $26, 000/year job working as a bilingual executive assistant for a maniacal COO and his uptight marketing director at an Italian subsidiary in midtown Manhattan. Turns out that year studying history (in Italian) in Florence paid off.
After multiple background checks (fortunately none of which involved me), Regina started a gig as a paralegal with the Federal DA in Brooklyn.
My job was…not what I had expected, but I was relieved, and so were my parents. I figured that all jobs out of college were for the most part underwhelming, but that I needed to start somewhere. I also figured that my first job wasn’t forever. It would teach me business skills and get me out in the world, where I could find something more rewarding in a year or two—which was, in fact, what happened. After working in the corporate world for seven years, I went back to school and got an MBA in finance. In retrospect, I could have gotten an MFA in writing, but: I’m writing now, and making a living from it! The MBA helped me switch careers and land a job in banking, which I parlayed into a freelance career as a financial and business writer (and blogger extraordinaire).
An education—or more importantly, a degree—is something no one can ever take away from you. It’s an investment in yourself, and in your future.
I’ve always believed (and said to anyone who’s ever asked) that you should study what interests you. Follow your heart, and the path will become clear.
Just one example springs to mind: the whole law school and b-school myth. Does the world really need another corporate VP? Or another lawyer? Maybe only if you’re passionate about advocating for human rights, or defending the downtrodden. The accelerating death spiral of high paid corporate attorneys (and corporate middle management) has been well documented over the past decade.
While it may sound counter-intuitive to some, money shouldn’t be your only goal when it comes to choosing a course of study and ultimately, a career path. Your degree will help you get to the right career(s) for you, just not always in the ways you expect. That’s why it’s important to enjoy whatever major you (or your children) pursue.
I promise to remember this if my son decides to become a theatre major. Or join the army.
The problem liberal arts majors face when heading out to look for careers isn’t that they’re unprepared for the “real world.” It’s that most hiring is handled by recruiters, and they’re out to hire skills, not people. They’re looking to put someone into a tactical role immediately. The future? No one’s thinking much about that. Innovation? Creativity? Cultural understanding? Systemic thinking? Analytical ability? Who’s hiring that?
But the real question is why are narrow-thinking recruiters determining the future? And why are we letting them?
hi Susan – thanks for reading my blog, and for your comment. I’m not sure why we’re letting these idiots call the shots! It’s very discouraging. Unfortunately, recruiters and the HR world in general is filled with people who have an extremely rigid mindset and outlook. They are all about “the rules” (creating them and following them religiously!) and “in the box” thinking (to throw one of their obnoxious terms back at them—with a twist). From my 20+ years of working in and out of the corporate world, I’ve yet to come across an HR/recruiter who was creative or innovative—or who even cares about finding out if potential job candidates possess these “soft skills” (even though I’m sure you’ve heard by now that corporate America’s “most valuable asset is [their] people.” Blech. HR people, if you’re out there, correct me if I’m wrong! Are you trained to ask the types of interview questions Susan mentions? It’s a shame, and ultimately I believe this will be the downfall of our corporate system, because eventually all the creative people (like me, and probably you!) get pissed off and leave to start their own thing…in the “Real World” (whatever the heck that is). It’s not a structure or system that rewards free or creative thinkers! In fact, it actively stifles and discourages critical thinking.
So, what do we do? What’s next? Keep doing our own thing, and pray for the implosion of the current corporate structure? (I’m not holding my breath!) I’d love to hear back from you and hear what you think is next for our young people in particular. I’m guessing more freelance work is in the cards for all of us. (Read my post “Friends without Benefits: the new reality of work“)
Sigh!
It isn’t that recruiters are inherently rigid or unimaginative. It’s that the greater risk in these wild economic times is driving recruiters to be exceptionally careful with companies’ decreased revenue and constrained salary dollars. So where they once were formula-driven (x years experience in y technology “required”), they’re now taking this to extremes.
Recruiters are on the front-lines of hiring decisions, but they’re not the final decision-makers. That’s the job of functional managers who are, themselves, under intense pressure to perform better than ever with less than ever. The problem, from a liberal arts student’s perspective, is that recruiters (and online application systems) filter them out before functional managers ever see them.
So, viewing this as would a liberal arts student capable of seeing problems at a systemic level, the problem is that we (the grand “we”) should be re-thinking what we want in the workforce of the future, not at the skills-level, but at the level of ability and education. That’s not a job for recruiters; it’s a job for strategic visionary thinkers. THEY have to want creativity, resilience, patience with ambiguity and deeper cultural understanding in their workforce. And somehow they have to lead hiring practices out of the narrow, constrained “these-majors-only-need-apply” thinking that dominates the customary process in use today.
I’m so glad I’ve found this post. I am a psychology major specializing in the clinical branch, fluent in Farsi (Persian), getting a BA finished in December from a rigorous but nationally unknown state school (TCNJ). Added, I transferred from a community college, was homeschooled, and lived a pretty poor life in a bad neighborhood during my younger years and got into trouble and all that jazz. So I sort of have that “coming up from nowhere” thing going on. I have a combined GPA of 3.471, but a 3.0 from TCNJ and a 3.7 from the county college. I rode on the fantasy that my combined GPA would matter but that fell flat on its face when a grad advisor told me their dog could pull off a 3.7 in a community college. Excuse making (I really did suffer severe depression during my first year at the new college and that had academic collateral damage) doesn’t work, because before you get your essay read, your recommendation letters check out, or your interview (for jobs and grad schools), your GPA is looked at. That’s how they cut down the amount of apps they have coming in, to make time for the ones they will eventually consider.
A 3.0 is not going to cut it. Even if you did good before that. Computers check applications much of time, or, the HR employee looking at your portfolio skips all the jazz and goes straight for the GPA. That’s sad. We’ve been reduced to numbers. Yes, the GPA is an estimate of how well you can handle work for four years. But people aren’t robots. Things happen. It doesn’t factor medical emergencies, changes of study, immaturity/development, poor study skills (some people read and destroy themselves over the work, but do bad because they aren’t studying “smart”) and loads of other extraneous variables. But the system doesn’t think in that big-picture way. It thinks concrete numbers, and as you said, “the rules”. While this kind of thinking, born out of Ford’s assembly line, is great for factories and products, it’s not compatible with human beings. Oh well, I guess Big Brother knows best, right?
Sorry if I sound like I’m bitching here. But I just don’t know many prospects. Main thing is, I face a problem many students I know don’t. Sure, statistically the average student taking 4-years to complete college and having around 20K in debt is diminishing nationwide these days. But many of my friends have their entire tuitions paid for by their parents, and they don’t have to work a bit (I worked full time during freshman and sophomore years and 20-30 hours during junior and senior). And whats more, they finish in 4 years. I think in big picture and rest somewhat easily knowing that my situation is common, but… I have about 75K in student loan debt because I paid for it all myself. And I pay 600 a quarter in interest (will be around 700 after this summer class and next semester). Very few of my friends dealt with financial aid regarding loans. I really didn’t know this disparity coming from a working background and assuming most people have working a job from age 16 on (..so naive).
I just don’t know if getting a master’s in counseling or social work would be beneficial at all to me. I did all the math and soul-crushing reality work recently and realized that an MaC or MSW would get me a job with a salary of 35-40K. With this kind of debt and the tedious, unfulfilling nature of social work, I feel like it would be a waste, and a master’s degree is a $50,000, soaked in blood waste. I was going to do that and go for the PsyD or Ph.D once I knock out graduate school. But those things are expensive too (Ph.D.’s not so much), and they take 5 years minimum. And even then, job prospects are frighteningly SCARCE. A Ph.D. faces a competitive and saturated job market in academia and a meager salary. In R&D he/she what he/she can make varies by field, but experimental psychologists make roughly 60K and I/O (ugh) make 80K usually after five years of work. In clinical, the market is saturated and insurance companies are preferring social workers and crap diploma-mill counselors who charge less and have less education, leaving PsyD and PhD shrinks with no option but to take the hit or develop another line of income. Hospital work in clinical psychology gets you around 60-75K after a few years, but I find myself asking- what will happen to all that principal over those years? Interest would pile up in the 5-years of deferral under a PsyD, the degree itself costs 100K, and it’s just brutal! I feel like I’ll be paying off my debt when I’m 55 years old! And I just want the little things in life- a house, marraige, a car, and some time between 6PM and 8PM to say “ahhhhh”! I feel like I should have taken my uncle’s advice and done computers or chemistry. Now I understand why he called me an idiot.
So I’m pretty determined to find something, whatever it is. I know I’ll get to the desparate point when I say “fine, if engineering brings a livable lifestyle, then bring on the equations and sleepless nights”. I really don’t know what else to do. Even tech jobs at hospitals are getting competitive (I was grilled for ten minutes about why, despite going over the required three and bringing five rec. letters, and my straight working experience since youth, my application looks weak because I didn’t have at least two hospital-related volunteering stints in my resume. I had research and experimentation volunteering stuff done, but I can’t fit in non-money making work when I’m already this tight!)… all that for a $10 an hour job wiping senior ass (sorry if I sound brash, I’m pissed about it). I don’t know. I know the liberal arts are necessary, and it’s sad to see someone who cannot see things in many different ways and work with possibility, but on the level of a struggling graduate, liberal arts is not a good investment. At least, if you are from a working background and will be taking out loans for your degree. LA is good for those who can afford it. And it’s sad that there isn’t enough LA in each major, or value for LA skills in the workplace. But what can you do?
Dearest Sam, thanks for reading and for commenting on my post. And believe it or not I’ve heard of TCNJ 🙂
I really feel badly about what’s going on with the economy…not just in the US but everywhere. The underlying structures are unsound. You, like thousands of other young people around the world, are really stuck when it comes time to find a decent-paying job that doesn’t make you sulk in a corner of your cubicle while you stick pens in your eye. There are few or no opportunities ANYWHERE. My brother is now into his 3rd year working in South Korea as an English teacher, because he can’t find a good job here (in Massachusetts). Still, I don’t think you should suck it up and study engineering (as an example) if you hate it. I don’t have any easy answers for you (not that you’re looking for any). I feel for you. And btw I want to spend some time reading more of your blog — it looks very interesting. Take care and let me know what happens. Peace.
hi all – quick update to this post – just saw an interesting commentary in the Christian Science Monitor – http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0725/Liberate-liberal-arts-from-the-myth-of-irrelevance – check it out